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Why Gopher in 2026?gopher.muffinlabs.com
121pts/91 comments/2d/─
by andsoitis / hn> / « feed
▲▼ prologic00:11 hn>

I still think Gopher (the protocol that is) is still very relevant today. The beauty of it really is in its simplicity. Great to see that the library I wrote all those years ago is still being used :D

https://pkg.go.dev/git.mills.io/prologic/go-gopher

▲▼ vaporup00:15 hn>
▲▼ anthk00:24 hn>

Gemini it's good on legacy machines and some clients can be really barebones (awk+less), and for some security there are clients written in Go. For awk+less, do yourself a favour. Run

    unset LESSOPEN 
or have it at ~/.profile.

Reticulum it's unusable in 32 bit machines, it badly needs a Go port for nomadnet.

On Gopher, well, lynx/sacc and maybe i2pd for some security and anonimity.

As a start, there's:

     gopher://magical.fish
     gopher://sdf.org
For gemini,

     gemini://gemi.dev it's nice.
'Lagrange' covers both gemini and gopher as a client.

You can set an HTTPS proxy for it and read news sites and blogs over Gemini.

Just set

     stargate.gemi.dev:1994
As the HTTP proxy in the settings for Lagrange.

For the terminal guys, there's Telescope and it can use HTTP proxies as well. Read the man page.

▲▼ billyhoffman03:28 hn>

I run gemi.dev, so it was nice to see it here.

I recently built a Gemini client for people who like GUI's more than TUI's, and want a native macOS app

https://github.com/acidus99/MajorTom

▲▼ nullwarp14:59 hn>

There is a go port of reticulum which I've used with success https://github.com/Quad4-Software/Reticulum-Go

There are also a few variants of Rust ports too (i like https://github.com/zevaryx/rettui for a full nomadnet replacement)

─ 1 more ─
▲▼ vconnor07:11 hn>

Time to stop posting about these, there’s no rush for them to have their Eternal September moment. Let us enjoy the good vibes for a while longer.

▲▼ vaylian12:46 hn>

What would an eternal September look like for Gemini? I don't think it's possible, because it's a protocol for putting basic documents online.

▲▼ GuB-4218:06 hn>

Gemini is essentially GopherS, Reticulum doesn't seem to operate at the same level (it is L3, like IP, from the look of it).

I hold the controversial opinion that encryption can be an anti-feature on the "small web". One of the reason is technical: encryption takes computing resources, and can hardly be made time proof, as it has to evolve in response to threats, and certificates tend to have expiration dates. The other is more philosophical: you use encryption when you want to share secrets: personal data, passwords, credit card numbers, etc... A system that doesn't support encryption doesn't support transfer of personal data, accounts or commercial transactions, which I believe is a good thing in this niche. There is no shortage of secure communication systems when you need one, let that niche stay a niche.

▲▼ Panda_20:05 hn>

RNS doesn't really map to the OSI model very well. It takes up basically every layer, 2-6, although it does depend on how it's used. The image on https://linuxinabit.codeberg.page/blog/reticulum/ quite near the top explains the difference between Reticulum and, as an example, TCP fairly well.

Your point about not having encryption is really quite interesting to me. I would want to add some form of signing to prove something came from somewhere unaltered, but that would go against the idea.

▲▼ II2II00:53 hn>

I love the idea of Gopher (even more so of Gemini), but the basic hurdle I run into is content. It feels like half of it is talking about how great gopher/gemini is, and the other half are deeply personal blogs. While the technology reflects the early days of the Internet, the content reflects the early days of blogging and social media (which came later). Rather than talking about things they are passionate about, they are talking about themselves.

▲▼ warkdarrior01:20 hn>

Maybe they are passionate about themselves??

▲▼ anthk02:13 hn>

gopher://sdf.org and gopher://magical.fish have far more than retro-onanism.

▲▼ hujun23602:43 hn>

The content split is what keeps me from staying. Once you leave the two or three hosts everyone names, it is hard to tell a technical phlog from another post about the protocol itself. Do you keep a short list of non-meta phlogs, or is it mostly hopping between known hosts?

▲▼ post-it03:56 hn>

I feel the same about Gander (the Canadian Bluesky-compatible startup). The only content on it is people talking about how it's not Twitter. One of my top three beefs with it.

▲▼ Vaushite04:00 hn>

I think these projects focus way too much on platform building than content acquisition. The valuable platform is the one where the content is, whether that's celebrity feeds or professional networking. It doesn't matter how technically good your platform is if there's no casual reason to visit.

▲▼ vconnor07:09 hn>

The early years of BlueSky were people talking about how it’s not Twitter.

People stick to a social network, and when they move is because they have big complaints about their previous home. If they didn’t, they would never have moved at all.

That’s probably the biggest lesson of the Web 2.0 era that everybody that tried to create a new social network had to learn.

▲▼ marttt05:09 hn>

I've become stuck in a strange metaphor regarding this: Gopher, Gemini etc are like an indicator of "biodiversity". Like a species living happily inside a small, even tiny ecological niche, having discovered that they don't really need much more.

Small protocols don't (?) disturb the mainstream internet in any meaningful way, but they simply deserve an opportunity to "be". They'll never be "big" these days (or, maybe in the scifi-scenario of complete societal collapse?). The content might, indeed, be a from-geek-to-geek thing these days, but they're a lovely sign of cultural richness, different thinking patterns etc.

▲▼ grumbel10:34 hn>

That's one big issue, but I feel like the even bigger one is that neither of them fixes what's wrong with HTTP: Publishing is not a first-class citizen on the net.

As long as you need to rent servers and domain names all those alternatives are a waste of time, as they are just repeating all the missteps from HTTP. We need an alternative where you can type some text, hit publish and have it appear on the net with zero friction and in a way that isn't tied to a single third party. Publishing a site needs to be as easy as browsing one.

So far Nostr it's the only thing that gets close at the protocol level, but still lacks a good client.

▲▼ vaylian12:42 hn>

What about https://neocities.org/? It's fairly straightforward and gives you the full power of HTML and a free subdomain.

I think the barrier is much more a matter of awareness of how web sites can be created than actual technical limitations.

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▲▼ abc123abc12310:59 hn>

What are you missing? Just write a bot that pulls interesting content into gopher, and start filling it. Since the protocol is so easy, nothing could be easier.

▲▼ II2II11:25 hn>

I am not looking for particular content, just for something that is interesting to read. Typically, that falls into the realm of things that people are passionate about. It may be a project. It may be an issue. It may be something they research in their spare time. It may be silly, or it may be serious.

While extolling the virtues of the protocol may fit in that, it gets excessive. Blogs that border on diaries strike me as too personal.

It's not that I'm looking for something on the scale or scope of the web. People have already written bots that pull over interesting content anyhow. What I am looking for is an environment that I'm comfortable with participating in.

▲▼ NoboruWataya11:17 hn>

I usually check in on gemini://antenna.michaelnordmeyer.com/ and think the content is a bit broader than you suggest. Recent posts cover topics like OpenBSD, Disney movies, Arch Linux, UK local radio, socks, books, and so on. Yes, there are a number of posts about Gemini, too, but it's a minority.

▲▼ jmclnx01:06 hn>

Why ? It is not owned and controlled by billionaires. Plus no AI slop being spammed to gopher sites.

FWIW, the same applies to gemini protocol.

▲▼ cowlevel01:32 hn>

Same applies to HTTP too though

▲▼ ecliptik03:53 hn>

Few months ago I had Claude build me a Gopher browser for Classic Macintosh systems, geomys[1]. I was using TurboGopher[2] before then, and it worked, but had a lot of design choices that are clunky today.

I tried to focus on keeping with the Apple HIG from the 1990s, while also making it more aligned with modern browser principles.

1. https://github.com/ecliptik/geomys

2. https://www.macintoshrepository.org/265-turbogopher

▲▼ rektlessness04:44 hn>

Proud exSDF member from the old days. SDF was considered 'vintage' back when i joined so must be doubly so now. Was introduced to Gopher back then too, along with NetBSD.

What a blast from the past to see SDF.org make it to HN in 2026. Proud grandpa. lol.

▲▼ rustyhancock07:19 hn>

Why exSDF member? Your account is surely still there waiting for you!

▲▼ rektlessness03:44 hn>

I didn't keep up with my MetaARPA membership dues. Account is probably suspended by now, or deleted.

─ 1 more ─
▲▼ ottoflux05:57 hn>

SDF is wonderful. Been supporting them for around 20 years.

▲▼ quimawen07:43 hn>

This is a useful angle on Go. I'd want to see how it holds outside the initial conditions.

▲▼ hugodan08:16 hn>

i would love it to have support for images, but maybe i'm missing the point i guess

▲▼ hollowonepl08:25 hn>

Gopher or not.. there are BBSes, there are many ways just to stop doom scrolling, avoid surveillance economy as much as possible and live offline with a book (not a kindle device) on your knees. and yes.. most of the ADHD generation with depressions, self-identification problems that we see today is exactly because tech made them this way.. or social media most of all.

I came back to simpler life some years ago. Being close to 50yo punk rocker who every time when asked to reply on Whatsapp answers "I don't have Whatsapp, if you want to call me you should afford to call me without making Zuck richer at your own cost". and people.. are.. bamboozled in most cases and just carry on doom scrolling themselves.

I don't. I finally have time again for movies, books, games and deeper communication with fewer and just occasionally pop up in more... I hope, moderated places like even here (although Hacker News that mixes tech, politics and food links is not exactly Hacker to me anymore and that's where actually some harder moderation would be beneficial here instead of just letting cry outs down voting just because we may have different opinions).

World is screwed as this guy described in his phlog. Hard to believe river can be turned back with a stick as we say in my country... but skipping as much BS as possible and "don't feed the troll" should be rephrased as don't support social media barons and political adversaries who manipulate us via non-moderated pseudo journalism.. not just punishing simple people who just want simple lives.

I personally miss times when netiquette (the one that emerged from early UNIX and USENET communities) was still the thing in the net. At full extend.

▲▼ thenthenthen08:52 hn>

We are so many steps deeper in. It is now a (payed) privilege of you have the affordance to not be totally connected and the other stuff you mentioned. Currently in a place that is very sobering in that sense.

▲▼ hollowonepl16:23 hn>

that's something very key about how you found out that it had to be paid first to afford what is the most expensive currency in the world -> time. People not always realise that until it's too late that we're not fighting to get more dollah... but more time when you have enough dollah so you can show all that consumerism and wanna-be-life-celebrity attitude a proper middle finger!

▲▼ agumonkey09:12 hn>

I do agree that spending time outside of the current internet field of distortion is quite pleasurable. I'm still dumbfounded how we pivoted from an ok-old-world with a bit of cyberspace fun to dopamine altering doomscrolling.

▲▼ alexfortin10:00 hn>

I tend to agree, actually I recently blogged[0] about something related but more in general I think it's totally doable to have a sane and very enjoyable digital life today too, perhaps even more than in the past, but it takes effort, of course, like everything valuable in life usually does.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50015169

▲▼ hollowonepl16:20 hn>

I absolutely agree too.. also on the extra effort factor to get it.

▲▼ wtch9810:44 hn>
>I don't have Whatsapp, if you want to call me you should afford to call me without making Zuck richer at your own cost

I still don't get how whatsapp makes any money from me. I do know that if I phone someone on my phone the connection is terrible, if I make a voice call on whatsapp it's a far better quality.

>I personally miss times when netiquette (the one that emerged from early UNIX and USENET communities) was still the thing in the net.

Eternal September, the gift that keeps on giving

▲▼ Vaushite12:54 hn>

Zuck analyses every message you send and the metadata of your contacts, and sells the analysis results to advertisers and government agencies. That's how.

─ 5 more ─
▲▼ hollowonepl19:27 hn>

Man, <Eternal September> this is so true. I totally forgot that term until you brought it back to my memory. I miss times when only universities and enlightened people had access to online discussions, not the average folk who just quack.

▲▼ heavensteeth11:08 hn>
>most of the ADHD generation with depressions, self-identification problems that we see today is exactly because tech made them this way..

Are you suggesting ADHD is something you can "get"?

▲▼ graemep11:33 hn>

Are you saying it is not?

Given we do not know what causes ADHD, and there is disagreement over whether it is a difference or a deficiency, its quite hard to have any definitive answers about it.

Given symptoms of ADHD include things like being better in emergencies and being able to to focus more intently on certain things my view is that it is a difference that society is unwilling to tolerate and is therefore treated as a problem to be fixed.

─ 9 more ─
▲▼ _heimdall12:31 hn>

Are you proposing that its entirely genetic with no environmental factors?

─ 10 more ─
▲▼ wincy12:52 hn>

I tell you what, I’m diagnosed with severe ADHD, but when I go into the woods for a multi day hike I have zero difficulty being laser focused on every task I’m doing.

─ 2 more ─
▲▼ hollowonepl15:42 hn>

Yes, world we live in not helping to avoid its pitfalls, even if you were born with it. not saying it's 100% 'gotten' thanks to times we live in, but surely exposed beyond personal management to many... thanks to times we live in.

▲▼ rcxdude13:15 hn>

I think the algorithmic feeds and attention economy are pretty corrosive, but going retro is only one way to resolve that issue. Primarily, I think it's better to find a smaller community that you can feel connected to, and this is a general trend but someone that's relatively invisible by its own nature. Whether this is a whatsapp group chat, a small discord server, an IRC chatroom, gopher, webrings and email, or just meeting people face-to-face doesn't matter so much (at least as far as mental health effects go: YMMV on other issues like privacy/censorship/etc as well as who else is using the protocol/platform).

▲▼ okeuro4914:23 hn>

Kindles are great

▲▼ andrewstuart14:25 hn>

And yet here you are on HN.

▲▼ hollowonepl16:25 hn>

true. but since 2012 or so with almost no karma thanks to little activity. so I'd say I respect HN for it's self-curated discipline to consume something that often Reddit and other places long lost. Don't screw it up people! :)

▲▼ pmlnr15:23 hn>

WhatsApp has little to do with doomscrolling. I really wish I could afford to not use it, but it seems to be impossible.

Scenario 1: video calls

I live abroad. The family, including a 80+ grandmother, has Androids, iPhones, computers. If I were to run something, maintenance would be limited to a few times per year, and I couldn't be there when they get a new device. Besides, remote support on android is virtually impossible.

I'm a veteran sysadmin and I have an XMPP ecosystem working with video calls & all, but that is not common. It needs a secured TURN/STUN server beyond a well configured XMPP one, DNS service entries, etc. For someone less experienced I can clearly see that being a nightmare.

Scenario 2: mailing lists

I'd absolutely run to communicate with the group of people I run classes for on mailing lists, except mailing lists are essentially dead since DKIM/DMARC. DKIMv2 might address this, but if you ask people, especially young ones, they'll look at you as if you're from Mars.

Summary

I'd absolutely love to have a non-profit, cross-platform video call app that comes pre-installed everywhere, just as the phone (aka voice) "app" is there, but there's zero incentive from the current ecosystem for such thing. I'm aware of carrier-level video calls, but I seriously doubt it's used a lot.

▲▼ hoppp01:21 hn>

ADHD is not because social media, it's as ancient as humanity. ADHD is genetic and heritable. Do not confuse natural selected features with the effects of modern technology.

▲▼ Kwpolska10:34 hn>

I'm not sure what's Gopher-specific in this article. While HTTP is more complicated and more capable, it is still something a human can understand, and it is still possible to make a HTTP request using nothing but netcat.

▲▼ azatom10:36 hn>

tldr I despise fakirs who misunderstand "the path to good things may involve suffering" as "if you suffer, you'll get good things". There is no reason for monospace with fixed wrapping.

Yes, everyone got fed up with "modern" ways, partly that is the reason AI raise as a simple, plaintext summary. Even on this "gopher site" i have to block css for "less is more"...

▲▼ vaylian12:56 hn>

HTML and CSS describe how a document should look like. Afaik with Gemini/Gopher it is entirely up to the client how it should be rendered.

▲▼ qznc15:45 hn>

Gemini is fine with fixed-width. See the Lagrange client: https://gmi.skyjake.fi/lagrange/

▲▼ 1potato15:55 hn>

Gopher is plain text and can actually look surprisingly attractive. If you're getting CSS, you're viewing it through a web proxy.

▲▼ vaylian12:54 hn>

What is a good starting point for getting more experience with actually using Gopher/Gemini?

▲▼ 1potato15:59 hn>

For anyone who may not be familiar with it, SDF is actually pretty amazing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Public_Access_Unix_System

Among many, many other services, you can get your own Gopher or Gemini site there.

I really like the Lagrange browser, which works with both Gopher and Gemini: https://gmi.skyjake.fi/lagrange/

Another excellent Gopher resource that hasn’t been mentioned here yet: https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw

Gopher is still quite active, and there’s lots to read. Gemini, from what I’ve seen, is less so. A lot of what I’ve seen is just cross-posted between Gopher/Gemini or even Gopher/Gemini/WWW, so there’s not much point to it.

You’ll also see a lot of “I’ve just discovered Gemini! Here’s why I think it’s awesome.” And then, they never post again. There's a good amount of that on Gopher as well, but you'll also find lots of Gopherholes that have been active for years.

Still, though, I think Gemini has a lot of potential. It’s a much more pleasant browsing experience than today’s web, but it’s had trouble finding a niche so far.

There’s one group of people who think that it doesn’t really solve any problems not already solved by Gopher, and there’s another group that just cross-posts all of their content to the web to maximize its potential audience, which kind of defeats the point.

▲▼ spiriteater16:46 hn>

Social media is an inherent competition for attention. The same is true of all the algo-based systems, including search engines. What you want may be a time before we let everyone and their dog stake a claim, have a startup, and shill products on the open internet. Maybe instead we need a new internet with some kind of test to use it.

▲▼ alexfortin09:41 hn>

This got me thinking that I already have all my posts in my ATproto PDS anyway, so why not to serve them as a Gopher hole too?

Here we go, my Gohper server baked by ATproto :

- https://forge.l3x.in/alex/crystalgoph - gopher://gopher.l3x.in

Very much alpha quality, but it's already working relatively well with e.g. lynx